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March 04, 2008 05:10 PM UTC

Primary Open Thread

  • 138 Comments
  • by: DavidThi808

( – promoted by Colorado Pols)

Texas is going to be a nail-biter. Ohio HRC probably has, but the polls have been off before. But these two are it. These could decide the election.

Vermont is a gimme for Obama, Rhode Island is a gimmie for Hillary. And McCain gets annointed tonight (can’t you feel the Repub love for him).

Results below the fold.

Ohio 99%
Clinton 1,203,924 54% 62
Obama 976,368 44% 46
Rhode Island 98%
Clinton 106,471 58% 12
Obama 73,609 40% 8
Texas (P) 99%
Clinton 1,452,776 51% 16
Obama 1,354,553 48% 10
Texas (C) 36%
Clinton 18,689 48% 0
Obama 20,209 52% 0
Vermont 86%
Clinton 52,839 38% 6
Obama 82,498 60% 9

Voting results will be

View Results

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Comments

138 thoughts on “Primary Open Thread

  1. Clinton is going to make a comeback! And is in it to win it!

    Obama’s campaign says Hillary needs to win by double digits to actually win today.

    I predict a wash, which is a win for Obama in the delegate race, but Clinton will not drop out. As much as I grown to dislike the Clinton’s during this eleciton, I must admit this primary is building support for Democrats more than anything else. The big winner today are the states of OH, TX, RI, and VT.

    1. But I’m sure you are aware that a lot of support for Obama has come from indies and the not-previously-registered.  If they would even bother to vote Democratic later or regardless of this race’s outcome, I doubt it.

      Hillary has more of the support of long time and involved Dems.  People who have supported the party, maybe worked in it, etc.  

      Those are generalities, so don’t knock me on the exceptions!

      1. to doubt the support Obama has from indies carrying over to a general. No matter how well Clinton does with the base in a given state,  the base alone won’t do it in a general for Rs or Dems.  

        While not all indies will go on to vote Obama, spinning his strength among indies and even a significant group of Republicans who sincerely support him as a weakness, rather than a strength, is silly.

        The percentage of those voting for Obama for strategic reasons rather than as a show of genuine support is probably quite small.  Besides, I thought the Rs wanted Hillary to be the winner, so the number voting for her in the open primaries for strategic reasons ought to make that a wash at the least.  

        Obama has also done very well with the base in a variety of states (ours for instance) so the idea pushed by Clinton that he only does well in open contests while she is the universal favorite of the Dem base isn’t accurate either.  

        They both have their strengths and weaknesses among the base as well as the general electorate.  Besides, doing well among the base and dissing open primaries and caucuses is a strange bragging point.

        Winning in November is too important to let this tear the party apart, something the Clinton campaign should bear in mind before they rank a likely Dem candidate, like Obama, BELOW McCain (Hillary’s comment about how she and McCain both bring experience, while Obama just made a nice speech in 2004) unless she really would rather see Obama lose in November if she can’t get the nomination herself.  Let’s hope that’s not the case.

        The best thing that could happen would be another Obama performance in Ohio and Texas many points over the polling numbers, as happened in Wisconsin where he won by much more than his best pre-primary poll, to settle this thing, but that could well not happen this time. No number of Clinton victories today will settle it.  From here on, the less damage the two camps do to each other, the better for Dems in November.  

    2. It’s toughening up both BO and HRC for the general and building lots of good press and support for the Democratic party.

      The old conventional wisdom was that primaries are bad for a party. But I think that may be only when they are fighting over the soul of the party. In this case where they agree on what being a Dem means and are fighting over who best can implement that – wow it’s a good thing.

      So here’s hoping tomorrow we’re still facing a tie.

          1. If Hillary drops out tomorrow McCain is in trouble.   Best he can hope for is a long and vicious fight to Denver.

            An uncontested Obama at this point will allow him to frame McCain any way he wants to for several months.  The money difference alone would be enough to kill McCain in the general.

          2. Who said anything about McCain?  I was just expressing my (strong) preference for Obama over Hillary.

            You may be right about conventional wisdom on  primaries, but I’d still like to see Obama win it sooner rather than later.

    1. It shows the press isn’t looking for facts of either case, but are dogging Obama hoping that he will make a misstatement. That’s tabloid journalism, pushed by the Clinton campaign, nothing more.  

  2. we have been talking about doing this way before Rush came up with the idea. Rush wants to create chaos within the democratic party, we just refuse to vote for McCain.

  3. Obama has the best turn out team.  The unions are putting massive boots on the ground for him and he is going to walk away with all 4 states.  

  4. Ohio- 53.2-46.8% Clinton

    Vermont- 62-38 Obama

    Rhode Island- 56%-44% Clinton

    Texas- 50-49% Clinton (However, Obama gets more delegates)

    The thing about Texas-this is weird for me.  My heart says Obama wins it, but my head says Hillary has the momentum there and could pull out a surprise.  

    While Hillary might come away with more delegates from the night, Hillary and Obama will remain close.  This fight is far from over and will probably go to the convention

    1. Judging by the way things look now, that’s darned impressive.  

      Also, can I borrow the time machine?  I need to go back to last June to bet on the Rockies to win the pennant.

      1. My percentages were a little off, but I’m happy about getting the states right!  I do better predicting when I don’t have a horse in the race…

        Anyway, borrow the time machine any time, just bring it back with a full tank of gas

        🙂

  5. How have previous admittedly very unscientific ColPol polls done in predicting outcomes.  Just wondering.  Could somebody crunch a few numbers for us? Are we pretty good, as a group, or pretty lame?

    1. But I remember the fun poll I did a while ago…Republicans nominated Romney, the Dems nominated Edwards.  Then in a general election fun poll between the two, Romney somehow managed to win 57% despite Dems outposting Republicans here nearly 3-1.

      Not a good track record, I’d say

  6. I just voted for the first time in my life for a democrat (Hillary).  Is this what it feels like to change teams?  I will be in the shower for the next few hours trying to feel clean again. I swear I saw the devil himself give me the thumbs up sign as I was walking out to the car, but I believe he would have given the same thumbs up even if I would have voted for McCain.

      1. I swore years ago I would never vote for John McCain because I have no clue what the man stands for.  Since the republican race is pretty much decided, I went and voted democrat and felt like Hillary was a better choice than Obama just because she has more experience.  Obama has not been tested at all in the race and there are just too many unknowns about the guy.

        It looks like Nader will get my vote in the general.

        1. Interesting that you post here but you live in Texas-but that’s all cool with me!  When I was a missionary I served in a little town over by New Boston.  What part of Texas are you in?

          I swore the same thing regarding McCain, but I’m getting more comfortable about voting for him, or not voting for Obama or Hillary.  My dislike for Clinton far outweighs my dislike for McCain.  But I’m probably still going to wear a clothes pin on election day

          1.  “My dislike for Clinton far outweighs my dislike for McCain.  But I’m probably still going to wear a clothes pin on election day”

          2. and dabble a bit in Colorado politics.  Although I live primarily just outside of Amarillo, I still make it back to God’s Country at least once a month.

            1. Good to know.  I don’t know if I would consider you a true Texan though-otherwise you would have called Colorado “the far flung honorary Texas county” as opposed to “God’s country”  

              🙂

              1. I was born and raised in the Panhandle and spent 18 years wanting to get away.  When I finally did leave I promised not to return to this part of Texas.  I lived in Colorado for 12 years and loved every minute of it.  But a long lost love brought me back home and so I make the best of it and try to stay involved when I can.  Coloradopols has been a fun way to stay up on politics.

                1. …A woman who showed me the door seventeen years ago in Pasadena looked me up recently, a la Google.  And called me Sunday.

                  Of course, now we live 2500 miles apart instead of ten.  Still very pretty.

                  Oh, well.

                    1. Until Los Alamos explodes, New Mexico has got us beat in the category of having the Highest State Capital Elevation.

                      Santa Fe has the oldest church in the U.S., too!

                    2. Wrong guess, and I mistook the state of my guess’ location, too! I hope any South Dakotans out there will forgive me, just as some native Hawaiians have forgiven the overthrow of their monarchy.

  7. My predictions:

    A ten point win for Clinton for Clinton in Ohio.

    A five point win for Clinton in Texas.

    A ten point win for Clinton in Rhode Island

    A thirty point Obama win in Vermont.

    The race continues. The press rejoices because they get to spend a week in Puerto Rico covering that primary.

  8. from Rick Klein ABC News

    7:36 pm ET: From ABC’s Ron Claiborne: “It’s 6:25 pm Central time and John McCain is the projected winner of primaries in Vermont and Ohio, the balloons in the huge ballroom of the Fairmont Hotel in Dallas are suspended from the ceiling in nets, primed for their triumphant descent when/if McCain claims the Republican nomination tonight … and, discounting media members, there’s barely a half-dozen people here. Could McCain’s long road back from near oblivion last summer to sewing up the GOP nomination actually turn out to be somewhat anti-climatic?

    McCain is falling off the media radar and will remain a side-show as long as the Dem race continues. So yes work hard for your candidate, but also hope that they don’t win until Penn. This keeps the spotlight on the Dem platform, policies, talking points, and 2 very compelling candidates.

    It also gives McCain time to get fat and lazy so when the general election actually starts, he’s not ready for a fight.

    1. If Hillary wants to run an issue campaign let it go to Puerto Rico.

      However she’s gone hard negative, she basically repeated the “gee maybe he’s Muslim” on 60 Minutes.

      The tactic of the hard negative is to drive up Obama’s negatives to approach Hillary’s–this is not a winning strategy (it also drives her negatives up even higher) when McCain gets to rise above the fray.

      I know the GOP will go negative, but they are getting a nice assist from Hillary.

      Get used to perpetual war and President McCain.

        1. Are you the same guy who keeps spam emailing me about penis enlargement.

          Truthfully I don’t see what this has to do with Obama.  Rezko had a good reputation in Chicago until 5 years ago or so.  When Rezko’s reputation started to go down Obama probably stayed with him a little long because he believed Rezko’s side of the story (remember Rezko has not been convicted of anything).  Obama has not been implicated on anything illegal or even unethical, even the land deal details don’t look bad when examined.

          As far as being friends with alleged criminals goes: at least he doesn’t employ them like Bush.

          Reality is McCain has his own ethics questions.  Though I think McCain is a generally ethical man, he was censured for unethical behavior by the senate for doing favors for a whole host of disreputable folks who ended up in the clink.

          As to the Article: Rezko bad. Rezko borrowed money from a UK citizen of Iraqi decent (why did you lead with Iraqi business man were you trying to implicate race or religion) who is questionable himself. Rezko used money to buy property.

          That’s the story if I read it right.  Again nothing implicates Obama in either law or ethics.

          1. why did you lead with Iraqi business man were you trying to implicate race or religion) who is questionable himself.

            BECAUSE, the story I was quoting started with this bold sub-head.

            A BRITISH-IRAQI billionaire lent millions of dollars to Barack Obama’s fundraiser just weeks before an imprudent land deal that has returned to haunt the presidential contender, an investigation by The Times discloses.

          2.  

            I post things that interest me.  This interests me not because I am in the Tank for Hillary or McCain, but because I wonder if it is the beginning of the press turning on OBAMA, or is it a Clinton plant somehow.

            I really don’t know.  Its just something really really different in tone than I have seen from the media so far this campaign.

            Will it last? Is it True?  Who Knows?

          3. I find it interesting that you have spammed a link to that story on everydiary on the pols

            Are you the same guy who keeps spam emailing me about penis enlargement.

            I did not mention this on every diary on Pols.  THIS is the only diary I posted it on.  ITS an OPEN THREAD. (see diary title)

            Geezz. You OBAMA guys are True Believers.

                  1. I really wanted your reaction (which you did give-Thank you) because I know you are a unabashed Obama supporter, and I truly was just interested in your take.  

                    I’d have sent you a private e-mail, but I don’t know it. Sorry if I appeared gleeful at Obamas negative press. I just wonder if we will be going through the GardenGate special prosecutor hearings in a year or two when the Republicans take back both houses.

                    🙂 Just kidding Danny

  9. Ok, Vermont and Rhode Island are a push – both are 60/40 and expected.

    Texas is looking to be down to the wire – with only 14% reported the final could swing as much as 5%. And a lot of what is already reported is all the early votes which the guessing is Oabam heavy.

    Meanwhile Ohio may be 60/40 in Hillary’s favor. That is a blow-out in this primary – way beyond expectations.

    So…

    If Ohio stays in the 60/40 range and Hillary wins Texas by even 1 vote, then the race will be viewed as tied again. Yes Obama will still have a handful more in delegates, but it remains a very even race.

    Imagine if we had left our primary date alone – we’ld have the whole world watching our caucuses…

    1. Cinci and cleveland are big  Obama areas.

      Rural areas are reporting which are strong for Hillary which is why she has the big lead.

  10. This from DailyKOS (Haner’s favorite source of news):

    Some precincts in Texas are still voting. According to rules, people in line at 7 p.m. when polls were supposed to close still get to vote. And since caucuses started right after the polls close, it looks like tons of people tried to vote late so they would only have to make one trip.

    Now add all the caucusers showing up to caucus, and it’s mayhem at places. This thing will go late.

    1. I feel confident Obama is going to win because HRC runs weak in the big cities (DFW, Houston) and Austin.

      Everything depends on her strength in the medium cities (San Antonio, el paso, lubbock, etc) which are all different, but trend HRC, but not strongly  

      1. While the vote total will narrow in OH, they still may have underestimated HRC’s support.  Her average margin there in the exits is about 3.4%

        In TX, the average is just over 1% in favor of HRC.  It could definitely go either way; but if you get the same “error” in exit polling, HRC still looks like she’ll pick up a verrrrry narrow “win.”

    1. While I think tonight’s wins help her narrative, she won both states by a much narrower margin than she needed – if she “won” Texas at all in the delegate race.

      There is an exhaustive summary of “the math” of the remaining primaries by PocketNines on Daily Kos; in short, Hillary has to clean up in order to even get close to Barack in pledged delegates.  Unless Obama has a meltdown, she won’t do that, and it’s likely that it’s back to the same old pattern of “states that don’t matter” until Pennsylvania.

      It’ll keep her in the race – unless Edwards dumps his delegates on Obama tomorrow, or the Superdelegates do a mass march to the Barack side of the aisle as Tom Brokaw suggests, or…

      1. that the deciding votes are going to be cast by the superdelegates.  Obama showed his lack of experience with his eight question press conference and the glow is starting to fade on the Democratic Messiah.  The whole idea of the superdelegate in the Democratic Party is that they are there to prevent another McGovern from occuring.  Someone really popular with the base but with limited appeal outside the party.  The problem may be that the superdelegates have fallen under Obama’s spell, and set up the Dems for a real disappointment in November.

        Edwards will probably keep his options open.  It’s not impossible that if the convention is deadlocked he can step forward as a compromise candidate to keep the party from fracturing.  Even if not, holding his delegates as long as possible will give him the best leverage.

        Obama is starting to show his weaknesses and inexperience.  I believe that the longer this goes, the better for Hillary.

    1. Far be it for me to give give the Clinton’s a pass on sleaze, but I don’t think that’s whats in play here.

      You have a divisive woman candidate with high negatives, verses a charismatic likable black candidate with high inexperience, who if he were white, would never have made it this far on such a thin resume.

      If Ronald Reagan was black, I would vote for him. If Barrack was white, I would not vote for him.

      It isn’t about race for most people. Not for Conservatives or most Democrats.  Now for hard cor liberals, they are the ones that appear to be obsessed with race.

      White Guilt? Who knows?  But it is funny watching the sanctimonious Democrat party who loves to point the finger at conservatives about racism, try dealing with liberal racists.  What a fun campaign this is.  

      1. For lent, I said no more postings on-line, but I have broken it elsewhere, so will do it here (in a limited fashion). I find it interesting that you view reagan as having loads of experience, when ALL he had was a very so-so college and grades, a so-so military (did not go far due to his nearsightedness and never saw a bit of action), and was a 2 term gov. who had  LBJ to thanx for pushing Kennedy’s space program (without that, CA would have been in far worse shape). All in all, reagan was very so-so in everything he did. Even as an actor he was a pure B (and most would say C) level actor. THe ONLY thing that the man was good at was being likable.

        OTH, Obama has served in politics since ’96. In addition, he was a boy wonder at harvard. While he had no military experience, he has been all over the world and understands other cultures. Finally, I note that after Super Tuesday, McCain and Clinton had NO plan on continuing the campaign. Both borrowed heavily. OTH, Obama, not only had a plan, but did not borrow. It says a lot. At this time, we need to recover from the reagan/W nightmare that has ran up massive debts.

        White Guilt? Not likely. I am convinced that he is the best choice. If given a chance, I will be voting for him (as opposed to voting against somebody which I did over the last 2 major elections). And if you think that conservatives are not about racism and/or other *isms, well, how did Romney do? The man lost the nod ONLY because he is Mormon. Personally, I think that he would have lost the general election (in a big way) due to his being back by neo-cons. But he lost the pub nod due to his religion. That is sad.

        On a side note, As to Clinton’s current win, I find it funnny that about 2 month ago, I suggested that pubs would change polls, and was chided by such notable “intellects” as David. The idea was suggested to me by some republican friends. Now, Rush and others were out and out trying to change this election by having ppl skip their pub vote and vote for clinton, knowing full well that McCain stands an even chance with her (and next to zero with Obama). I do not know if Clinton won this because of the conservatives pushing this, but it would not surprise me.  Hopefully the 2 dems do not destroy themselves in the process. American not afford to have any more reagan/W type gov. It is destroying us.

        I find the above all the more interesting because up until today, I favored open primaries (I lose any influence due to being a Libertarian). As of now, I  fully oppose those.  

        1. Closed primaries are really the underpinning of a party system.  If the primary is not closed, then the party concept loses most of its meaning, IMHO.  Yes, the parties have survived with open primaries, but they’ve also suffered through several similar attempts to “rig” the primary against a candidate.

          In theory, it’s to give people in lopsided districts a chance to have a say even if they’re not of the party who controls the district.  But it isn’t true to the idea of “party”.

          1. That is my choice.

            The problem is when I see the crap that goes on in Texas, that I realize how pathetic things can get. I have some close friends in the pub party and I have heard of a number of interesting things, but I never really thought that it was that massive.

            At this time, I would rather see the laws be changed back to allow more parties, rather than do the open vote primary. I do believe America is stronger with more new blood (which Libertarians and even the green party brings). As it is, the pubs worked hard to close access for third parties to prevent what happened to poppa bush.

        2. boy wonder at harvard

          Oh NO, Please.  Not another Boy Wonder.  Bill Clinton was enough. (Wasn’t he the man from HOPE before Obama Hoped for change?)

          White Guilt? Not likely. I am convinced that he is the best choice. If given a chance, I will be voting for him

          You misunderstood.  I don’t think you or most or even any sane Democrats are voting for Obama out of White Guilt.  That was liberals that said that. Sharpton implied it for one.  What I was saying,

          White Guilt? Who knows?  But it is funny watching the sanctimonious Democrat party who loves to point the finger at conservatives about racism, try dealing with liberal racists.

          Liberal racists (Liberals accused by other liberals of being racist)Like Bill Clinton, Clintons campaign staff, the Liberal LA Times reporter who coined the phrase “Barack the Magic Negro” ECT. ECT.

          And if you think that conservatives are not about racism and/or other *isms, well, how did Romney do? The man lost the nod ONLY because he is Mormon. … But he lost the pub nod due to his religion. That is sad.

          Not really.  He lost because he split the conservative votes with Huckabee. Huckabee’s appeal was populist and southern baptist down home preacherism.  He did play the Mormon card, but it was pretty well answered by Romney.  Romney took Colorado in a HUGE way, but not so well in So. Baptist territory.  It was more that the voters there identified Huck as one of them, and the former Mass. Governor (who was also a Mormon) as not one of them.  I’ve lived in the South, In Arkansas in fact, and Huckabee played well there.  The Mormon thing was a minor minor part of it.

          That said, it did play a very small part, and any part is too much.

    2. Or the clear documented bias against the shorter candidate? Yes there are biases – a lot of them. And yes some people will never vote for a black candiate, some will never vote for a woman, some will never vote for a Democrat.

      But I don’t think that is the giant issue here. The giant issue is that Obama does have pretty minimal experience. And that is the big thing Clinton hammered him on. And if Obama wins the primary, that is the same thing McCain will hammer him on.

      Better to find out how he handles it now.

      1. I live in the very conservative Texas Panhandle, just like me many people I talked to last night crossed over and voted for Hillary because they thought that Obama didn’t have the experience to be president.  That is what they said in a group, but when you got them talking one on one many said that they crossed over because they would never vote for a black man for president.

        Don’t shoot the messenger on this one; I am just reporting what I witnessed more than a few times yesterday.

        1. I have a number of African-American friends who have told me they would drive through a small nuclear war to vote for Obama. That card plays both ways and the ones that won’t vote for the black candidate tend to be heavily Republican and we don’t get them in the general election anyways.

          Yes racism is alive, but it’s not doing that well. Douglas Wilder and Jesse Jackson were never given a chance. Barack Obama is still in the lead.

        2. It is NOT about RACE.

          Let me repeat myself.

          You have a divisive woman candidate with high negatives, verses a charismatic likable black candidate with high inexperience, who if he were white, would never have made it this far on such a thin resume.

          If Ronald Reagan was black, I would vote for him. If Barrack was white, I would not vote for him.

          Give me a solid conservative governor, with a conservative voting record, and I don’t care if she is black, if he or she has the creditability, I WILL GLADLY vote and support her.

          Barck Obama, I will not vote for because, HE IS AN INEXPERIANCED LIBERAL.

          PS I wouldn’t vote for him even if he was an experienced Liberal, Because HE IS A LIBERAL.

  11. My comments are based on the fact that it appears the releasing of pictures of Obama in African garb came from the Hillary camp.  Even 60 minutes did a piece on the fact that “someone” is pushing emails emphasizing the fact the Barack is Muslim.

    Who you vote for and why you vote for them is your God given right. I have lost a lot of respect for both Bill and Hillary.  To me they have shown that they will toss any good will they had in the Black community in the trash if it gets her elected.

    I am tired of Blacks (and now Latinos) being taken for granted by politicians who need to get elected.  My dad used to tell me that all racial jokes are not to be tolerated.  He told me if someone tells you a Mexican joke, the same person is telling Black jokes when you are not around.  

    Bill and Hillary are now telling Black jokes to the Latino community.

    This kills me because Bill Clinton is the reason I became involved politics.  As a young 26 year old, he spoke directly to me. This election is challenging me in ways that I did not think I could be challenged in politics.

    1. And voters will be swayed by garbage like that. But it’s still gigantic that even with all that crap thrown at him, a black man is the front runner to be the next president of the United States.

      And politics is a nasty brutal full-contact sport. This kind of crap is thrown at anyone who runs. You don’t have to like it but Obama is not going to get a pass on the mud-slinging.

    2. Bill is not a racist.  If he were I could understand it and dismiss him as an ignorant fool.  Bill has real friends in the black community.

      The divisiveness is not born out of hate, but out of ambition.  

      That ambition has driven them to toss their friends under the bus.

      If they’ll toss their friends under the bus to serve their ambition, I have little hope for the health of the party or the country.

  12. I just have a hard time with the racial stuff coming from “my” side. Call me naive, I drank the Democratic Party kool aid! Just one big umbrella.

    1. And individual politicians and their teams will be brutal in their attempts to win. The big question is where is the party taking us over time. And the Democratic party has by and large from FDR on been a force for good.

      If you want purity and absolutes you need to look to religion, not politics.

  13. We had to delete your last comment because the extra-long headline was screwing up the formatting of the front page. Please feel free to re-post, without so many ‘HAs’

    1. Actually, I think I’ll just leave it as is.  I really don’t have the energy to engage Sir Robin’s one-trick show right now.

      But thanks for letting me know.  The next time I post pure sarcasm, I’ll put it in the body, not the headlines

      1. Please limit the number of characters in the subject line. Too many characters pushes the left border toward the middle, shrinking the center of the page, for as long as the comment appears under Recent Comments in the sidebar. The problem takes care of itself if there are a lot of subsequent comments, but sometimes we need to delete the comment to preserve the “structural integrity” of Colorado Pols.

        1. “structural integrity” is nothing more than a pretext for censorship ! I’m being oppressed !

          Now where did my tinfoil hat go…

        2. Pols, are you just on this site, but contribute nothing to the code? It is fairly trivial to limit the width of the subject line, either at the input, or in the back-end. In fact, you might even just split it on a word boundary, put an ellipse in there and then push part of the subject into the post.

      2. Let’s see….I have railed against the goose stepping/lock step Republicans who never challenged the utter and collosal failures of the Bush Administration; the decision to go to war in Iraq and the completely inept handing of foreign policy; the depth of corruption in this administration and with so many other Republicans around the country; the catering of this administration and all Republicans as far as I can tell of their “base” the uber-rich corporatists; the failure of this administration to own up to the scientific evidence of global warming (Bush is finally starting to come around…way too late in his tenure IMHO), This administrations inability to tell anything but lies; the politicization of government, i.e., power over principal; Bush’s squandering of the public’s and the world’s trust….for shame; the squandering of the surplus and the ringing up of a record setting deficit; the promise to get elected of a “uniter”…which is what the country wanted after 8 years of the republicans going after Clinton…only to be the most bull headed and divisive of politicians….

        The list goes on and on….one-trick indeed! Bush makes it easy to get to a 1000 reasons why he is a disgrace….but I don’t have time.

        1. All Republicans are Fascist Nazi’s who want to kill anyone who doesn’t look like them, take everyone else’s money and spend it, then spit on us.

          That would cover the essence of most of your posts that I’ve read over the last two years.

        2. That’s all you do!  Rail!  We were talking about the track record of polls on pols, but you were incapable of talking about that subject, you couldn’t help but revert to railing.  

          You’re a one trick show.  Glad you agree.

          I worry about you.  Seriously.

          What are you going to post about when Bush is out of office?

          It’s pretty sad how the sum of your posts over the course of years can be summed up so percisely (good job cologeek!)

          1. Respond to the issues. When A Democrat does something I don’t agree with, I let that be known also.

            You guys need a Waaambulance!

            Don’t worry about me, worry about the country the Republicans, with an all too quiet Democratic opposition party I might add, are ruining.

            You two are simply political whores with very few principles to stand on. It’s party over principle all the time. I’ll defend my principles all day long versus the likes of you. ALL DAY AND NIGHT LONG!! You’ll never defeat principled individuals. You’ll never silence us. You can’t humble us or defeat us. You will never win the war of ideas. Never. I’ll outlibe you, outlast you, out think you and my words will carry further than your feeble bullshit will.

            I am not afraid, and I will not be silent.

            Your type stifle and delay inevitable evolution. The world is ready for a new day! God, it can’t come too soon. Your Republican government is led by oilmen who kill to maintain profits. For shame.

            1. Is this a bit from Monty Python??

              Or maybe an Indiana Jones Movie.

              I’ll outlibe you, outlast you, out think you

              Yah that’s it. When the Nazis capture Indiana (Harrison Ford) and his Dad (Sean Connery), and tell them they will soon have their friend “Marcus” the old ancient history professor in their custody as well, they respond.  “You will never catch Marcus, he speaks a dozen languages, he’ll adapt, blend in”

              In the next seen we see the old professor in Marrakesh I think asking in English if anyone speaks English wearing an American suit and tie in 100 degree weather sticking out like a sore thumb.

              “Out Lib you”  Ba Ha Ha Ha HA.

            2. Same thing all the time.  If constantly repeating yourself is out thinking me or anyone, then yup, you got me there.

              And I need the Waaambulance.

              The maturity and depth of your posts are amazing.

              And by “amazing”, yes, I mean retarded.

              But now I’ve managed to get into the muck-fest I wanted to avoid, and broke my own promise to ignore you at every turn because of your vileness.

              So allow me to recommit myself to my principals and start ignoring you again.

              I hope you find happiness Sir Robin!

              I hope you find happiness Sir Robin!

            3. You think “The Enlightened” (you, and anyone you anoint as such) can do whatever they want and need to make this “A Better World,” and “Make People Better.”

              Sad part is, it ain’t going to happen.  People are people, and have been for over 12,000 years.  This world sucks, not because of unenlightened governance and population, but because it sucks.  Nothing you, nor any enlightened tyrant, nor technocrat, nor eugenicist, nor anyone else do can change that.

              Can you bring about our better natures?  Absolutely.  It’s been the mission statement of religion since that paradox of human nature was first defined (they called it Original Sin).  You can join their quest however you wish.

              But you can’t change our nature, and you can’t change our world.  You can only make a lot of people miserable by trying.

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